Discussion with an old friend

This weekend I spoke to my old friend. He was upset about my "hateful" post that others have been discussing in whatsapp groups (he himself never saw the actual posts).  My posts have been purposefully provocative on the topic of castes.  Why provocative?  Because the caste privileged Indians have become really good at ignoring discussions on caste.  But provoke a little and that mask starts to come off.  More later on why such unmasking is important.

He was perhaps worried about how my Facebook posts were alienating my friends group from me.  Now, this is 2 years AFTER I had to quit that group for their toxic islamophobic, misogynist posts in that group and severe debates which mostly ended up personally attacking me in one way or another.  By the way I have archived that group for anyone researching Islamophobia in Indian American community.

His premise was..  see even Facebook banned you for posting what you post against the privileged section of India.. Therefore you must be posting shit...(also he believes Facebook is evil lol)

I usually avoid having this kind of argument with people who have zero background in working with marginalized communities or social thinkers because there are no good conclusions to these debates.  But I am going to document responses to some of the glaring faults in his argument so that I don't have to repeat this process for another person.  Also sometimes you need to spell things out for people who have not thought deeply enough about these things. 

One problem is whenever anti-caste people bring up the question on the whole class of privileged people, each person takes it up personally and decides to personally attack you.  Thus you are reduced to giving examples from their own lives and then dealing with their evasive maneuvers. I am preparing this FAQ that answers basic things 

• caste is not even a top priority..We need to focus on bigger things like climate change

Castes in India is the main economic, social and material divider.  Anyone who disputes this must be highly ignorant. There is no need to prove the significance of caste in Indian society.  In fact, if anyone claims it is not important(any more) the onus is on them to prove that a problem that existed for thousands of years and shaped the entire society has ceased to be an issue.
But let us set that aside for a minute.  What really is going on here is nothing but creation of a diversion to avoid accountability.  Why climate change or say gun control or anything?  That is because the said person either has no skin in the other game or has taken a bare minimum step to be able to evade accusation of being complicit.  Evading responsibility and bringing in new issues to avoid any discomfort and introspection about their own involvement in an oppressive structure is the key here.  

 

• climate change is going to equally impact rich and poor(I confirmed and you said this is true)

This again is a very ignorant statement.  To begin with the statement assumes that climate change has not yet started showing its impact. We know for sure that the water crisis in India(for example) is tightly coupled with climate change, so are the flooding in monsoon.  So who goes without water in summer in India or whose homes are swept away in flooding or who dies from cholera because of poor access to water?  Does dengue/malaria kill rich and poor in the same ways?  What about food prices? 3000 children (almost completely) from underprivileged castes die EVERY DAY from malnutrition.  Does rising food prices due to climate change impact on agriculture affect both rich and poor the same way?  Does inflation in food prices, which is 1% of a rich man's income, affect him the same way that the poor person who spends 80% of income on food? 

• I treated everyone equally in college.  Once a SC guy saved me from being trashed by another SC gang...I can't remember his name

I saved this personal anecdote narrated to me for its comical value.  What makes one forget a classmate's name after the classmate saved you from a bad trashing at the hands of other classmates at risk to himself?  Why did you not even become friends with them?

Concept of Equality during college years

Regardless, this statement that you treated everyone equally in a highly unequal system and society is in itself a joke.  What does it even mean?  Does anyone ever say that "During slavery I treated both master and slaves equally"?  Perhaps the intention was to say I did not discriminate (even though the track record shows otherwise).  But that is because you were not directly given a hard choice to do so.  The soft choices were obviously never made in their favor.  Did you partner with them, did you hang out with them, did you celebrate their festivals (say Ambedkar Jayanti?) and so on?

Again we are taking individual actions, even if you were an exception, how does it disprove the systemic, the structural impediment for those without the caste capital you had?  

• (on my refusal to accept Bill and Melinda as the Messiah)...You guys are too much..You are filled with negativity..You are drowning in negativity gutter

Ignore  the personal slander, let us look at the REASON for my refusal to accept Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation as any kind of messiah.  Let us give complete benefit of doubt to the foundation and absolve it from every illegally carried clinical trial and also for their pushing the genetically modified agribusiness with Monsanto(and I thought this friend was genuinely interested in fighting climate change).  Let us assume they do mean what they are doing in the right spirit... I still do not look up to them as any kind of messiah or a template for how this world could be made a better place.  Why?  Because the foundation works on the principle of charity not rights.  They have no interest in people's right, their motive is to "uplift people through charity work".  Does it help few people, well yes it helps few people.  Can the same amount of money under people's control do similar or more good? Of course.  

Back in the 50s-60s US tax rate at Bill Gate's income level was 90% .. this is the era when a substantial part of the US middle class was created(though it was still very racist).  I am sure BillG would be happy shelling out a puny part of what would have been a tax and would keep BillG as an equal to other taxpayers.  What do you think? 

• you don't get human psychology ..If you mock the privileged they won't change

Err this statement after the "gutter" statement above sounds a bit weird.  But let us see the  problem with this unsolicited advice.  What should one do when one receives an unsolicited and patronizing advice from another person?  One must request credentials of this free advisor (just in case it is useful advice).  So my request usually is to kindly let me know of the number of caste privileged people the advisor has successfully converted through the knowledge of human psychology.  The response as I know will be 0.  The casteism that exists within my sphere of influence is a very chaaloo casteism (not open casteism).  People participate in it but will NOT talk about it.  How do you discuss this topic without making them uncomfortable?  My research indicates that there is no lack of knowledge here, but it is an ego problem.  The privileged and oppressors feel that they have nothing to learn from reading or listening from their victims.  It is not that they don’t know how mean they have been collectively.  It is that they DONT want to accept/acknowledge it.  Thus in light of this information it is best to provoke them and make them respond in various ways to reveal their inner contradictions. 


Schrödinger's caste:When Brahmin's caste is both dead & alive until someone mocks it

- old anti-caste joke

• I have a problem with reservation, yes.

Nothing surprising here.  When you are used to privilege any attempt at equality looks like oppression.  But scratch the surface and ask them which reservation are they opposed to?  The Manuvadi one or the constitutionally mandated one and they will pretend to not understand the question.  90+% of all available work in the country is in the unorganized sector, mostly employing families and extended families.  The society is coming out of thousands of years of opportunities being provided exclusively on the basis of castes and has already resulted in accumulated capital of handful of castes in every profession.  95% of all marriages happen in the caste.  That means it is highly possible that the well-offs dont have relatives from backwards castes.  What else is nepotism than reservation based on one's own caste? But the geniuses can never make these connections in their head.  For them the only kind of reservation is the one spelt out in the books.  Forget the fact that all major institutions are exclusively filled with caste bandhus.  From judiciary to media to academia even when there is mandated reservations.  But they continue to shed tears about it.

• I haven't read any books on this topic but I have a hunch and it is not enough if your "facts" don't satisfy my hunch

Not that the statement itself is not funny but let me rub it in.  Regardless of how much fact and data you throw at them, the flat earther ain't gonna change if their privileges depend on the propagation of the myth.  Galileo never convinced the church.  You just need to wait for the new generation to pick up the alternate story while you debunk the old jumla with full force.

• you should make this mainstream like al gore made climate issue mainstream and not by angry criticism

What this person is trying to say is that, tell me something that challenges me minimally, keeps me in the same dominant position in society and if possible asks  others to change more.  There must be a solution that is acceptable to the capitalist market. Is it possible to discuss redistribution of society’s wealth in a capitalist friend way? 

• Electric car adoption is a great progress in direction to tackle climate change and should be used as an example of how issues can be bumped up in people's mind

This again is along the lines of convenient action to bring the issue to forefront in people’s mind or in a market friendly way.  It does not take into account that while the electric car “replaces” the fossil fuel car for slightly higher price (and feel good status bump) the issue of caste is about letting go of your wealth, power and social status.  I am not interested in cosmetic changes in people’s behavior that will require a reanalysis to prove that they are still being casteist.  

• also whenever we have been casteist it was never the intent and you are blowing it out of proportion.

No one gives a fuck about your intent. People only look at your impact on their lives when trying to look at cure for social evils that impact them.  Your willful ignorance, your gaslighting and your unwillingness to treat others in a human way and most importantly YOUR SILENCE WHEN YOU SHOULD HAVE SPOKEN UP don’t need my help to be blown out of proportion.  If you feel so hurt about this imagine the people who are discriminated against by blowing their trivial weakness out of proportion just because they happen to be born in wrong castes.

• Why don’t you go back to India if you care so much about caste problems.

This reveals me two things about their thinking

1. In their minds they probably think the marginalized of India are the problem to solve.  That the ruling *clastes* cannot be a problem.
2. These people don't like me.  Everyone knows what is the situation of "freedom" in India when you speak against the establishment and elites.  Yet they are so happy to send me in the harm's way.  They are probably trying to get rid of me from their midst as I am being a nuisance. 

Anyways, jokes apart.  See if you follow thru 1) you will see that the true problem of India sits in the head of its privileged castes.  Now, there are ample samples in America too.  I am not a very courageous man.  I'd prefer to work with the poor fellas who are caught with me here 😉.  To explain further, high caste people in India have more power over anyone criticizing caste than high caste Indian people in America. Better to use the guinea pigs in America for my social experiment than try this in India.

I'd like to end this with quotation of Dr Ambedkar that is very close to my heart
"It is usual to hear all those who feel moved by the deplorable condition of the Untouchables unburden themselves by uttering the cry “We must do something for the Untouchables”. One seldom hears any of the persons interested in the problem saying ‘Let us do something to change the Touchable Hindu’. It is invariably assumed that the object to be reclaimed is the Untouchables. If there is to be a Mission, it must be to the Untouchables and if the Untouchables can be cured, untouchability will vanish. Nothing requires to be done to the Touchable. He is sound in mind, manners and morals. He is whole, there is nothing wrong with him. Is this assumption correct ? Whether correct or not, the Hindus like to cling to it. The assumption has the supreme merit of satisfying themselves that they are not responsible for the problem of the Untouchables."

• Ok fine! What is the solution? What is your damn solution?

Ah! I guess you have realized by now that there is shit load of unlearning and learning that needs to happen on your end for you to even comprehend the solution.  There are a lot of work starting with Dr Ambedkar’s Annihilation of Castes and others that you can refer to but I am not sure you are ready to engage with it yet.  So continue to look inward and if you dont have the time and courage at least stop gaslighting those who are trying to dismantle castes in their own ways.  And yes, try NOT TO STAY SILENT when your speech matters. 

Appendix - Personal Section, not intended for strangers

• You work for XXX, you are a hypocrite.  You work for an evil company. 

Yes I also work for capitalism(investors in XXXXX are my real masters) and I also pay taxes to the most violent government in the world (MLKs words). I am also a huge beneficiary of Indian caste system.

So what does that prove? Does that make the truth about casteist Indian society less important?  Does it erase the fact that as a person coming from privileged castes I no longer need to confess my privileges or can no longer expose the wrongdoings of my caste brethrens? If anything it proves that I am a beneficiary of multiple evil entities/systems.
Let us look at why this person finds it necessary to descend into personal attacks when the class criticism is performed.  It is clear that when the criticism of class was brought up the person felt personally attacked and is trying to get even.  There are two cases here 

1. When personal attack is directed at the critic within the class 
2. When personal attack is directed at the critic from the oppressed class

When it is done on 1)  which in my case is true it is a moot point.  As a critic that is exactly what I am saying that our class consists of hypocrites who suppress voices of victims of structures that benefit us. 
But let us also look more closely at the statement and see the problematic way it is also used to block criticism from the oppressed(2).  The gaslighting case.  Does this mean that a janitor drawing salary from Facebook no longer can speak as a working class, does a woman working for XXXX loses her right to speak against male privilege, or does a LGBTQ person cease to be a voice of LGBTQ people? 
Only a fool will think so, then why do apparently smart people fall into this personal attack trap in response to criticism of the collection they belong to?  

• Your child goes to private school, you support public education.  You are hypocrite

Public education is seriously underfunded in the United States.  It also has many flaws including economic ways it segregates its children.  When I support public education I mean - I am willing to pay into a system that educates children free of cost and in a more mixed and diverse way and be able to cater to every child’s needs.  I am willing to pay into this system so that the teachers are paid well and class rooms are not overcrowded.  To be a hypocrite I must be opposed to paying the taxes and still harp about public education.  Contrary to how someone else may avoid public school due to racist reasons(which would be truly hypocritical in my view) my reason could be different. It is because I am MORE aware of how successive governments and bad policies like “No Child Left Behind” promoted by the messiah Bill Gates have hurted the public school. I know that my child will not get the quality education he deserves(and I can afford).  But at no point I claim that everyone should be paying for their children’s education.

To give another example I support public health care.  But I do know that situation in public hospitals in India is pathetic due to underfunding and mismanagement. Because of this it may not be my first choice if I can afford .  Does that mean my support for everyone having access to decent health is hypocritical?